Dr. Ricky Rood's Climate Change Blog

Sea Ice South (3): The Logical Song
Posted by: Dr. Ricky Rood, Saat: 11:21 PM GMT Tarih: 25 Mayıs 2011 +3
This may be the most complex blog I have ever written. I will try to put together the material from the previous three blogs to expose the basics of sea ice in the Southern Hemisphere. The first in the series examined the Northern Hemisphere, and the amount of accumulated heat that is needed to explain the melting of sea ice in the north. The second in the series looked at the geography of the planet and the characteristics that distinguish the Arctic from the Antarctic. The third in the series looked at some of the basics principles of the Earth’s climate. All of these set the foundation that there is little reason for the behavior of sea ice in the southern hemisphere to mimic the sea ice in the northern hemisphere. And following that, there is no reason that the response of sea ice to a warming planet will be the same in the northern and southern hemispheres.

First some summary facts: Remember that sea ice is made by the sea freezing. Such freezing occurs at high latitudes, where even as the planet warms up, it will still get cold in the winter because the Sun will still go down for a long time. Sea water is salty, and snow and rain and melting ice sheets on the land are fresh water. Salt water freezes at colder temperatures than fresh water – that’s why we salt icy highways. Finally, much of the heat that gets to the poles is by transport of heat from warmer, lower latitudes.

Let’s start with a figure, which is an annotated version of the map from the second blog in the series.



Figure 1: An annotated map of the South Polar Regions.

I drew a little arrow with a “1” in it at the southern tip of Africa. This is to show how the Agulhas Current comes south on the west African coast as a compact current. It then gets swept away towards the west. Therefore, this current does not directly warm the highest latitudes of the ocean. Therefore, this current does not send a concentrated stream of warm water to the pole that can melt ice. (Contrast this with the Gulf Stream in the Northern Hemisphere, which famously warms the North Atlantic and Arctic regions.)

An understanding of the cause of the spread of the Agulhas Current starts with the big green, dashed arrows on the map. These arrows represent atmospheric storms, which start in middle latitudes, propagate south and turn to the east with the Earth’s rotation. Because of the belt of open water that surrounds Antarctica and the high terrain of Antarctica these storms form a belt of high winds. These winds put stress on the ocean and start the surface of the water moving from west to east. As this water moves from west to east it is diverted northwards, again, due to the rotation of the Earth. (For those who do atmospheric and ocean motion, this is the Coriolis force.) The net result of the atmospheric storms in the Antarctic Ocean is a broad surface current from west to east with a northward deflection. Therefore, at its coast, Antarctica is somewhat isolated from the direct effects of warming. (Look at the map closely and you will see that the 1894 cartographer drew it all in.)

What about under the surface? Under the surface of the southern ocean it is warming, and that warm water is propagating towards Antarctica. It is bringing heat to the edge of the continent and to the bottom of the sea ice. Therefore there is the real possibility of the sea ice melting from below, or if not melting, freezing more slowly.

But sea ice is complicated – if nothing else, that is a message from all of my sea ice blogs. If you look at sea ice in the Southern hemisphere it is increasing on average. But it bounces around a lot and in some places it is systematically increasing and other places it is decreasing. Here’s a picture to remind you of what sea ice was doing back in April.




Figure 2: Areal extent of April sea ice in the Southern Hemisphere from 1979 – 2011. (figure from National Snow and Ice Data Center)

This simultaneous occurrence of growth and melting, cooling and warming, should always be suggestive of the oceans and atmosphere mixing hot and cold. That is what weather is always doing - mixing, trying to even it all out. Whenever there is mixing by fluids, and air and water are both fluids in regard to the way they move – whenever there is mixing by fluids, it gets complicated. Slowly drip heavy cream into gently stirred coffee and watch it stretch and mix.

To make it more complex sea ice is made by freezing water with various levels of salt in it. There is snow and rain, fresh water, falling on the sea ice. There is fresh water coming from melting glaciers pouring into the ocean. Fresh water is heavier that salt water, so if fresh water is on top of salt water, it’s happy. But if saltier water is on top of fresher water it sinks, and causes mixing as fresher water comes up to take its place. Of course, it does not stop there, snow is an insulator and if it is on top of ice, it insulates it from both warm and cold extremes of air temperature. And, remember, when it is cold enough to snow, it snows more in a warmer climate. Hence, there is the possibility of growing protective insulation from the warming air. Salt water, fresh water, insulation – what would happen if it got warm enough that it started to rain more instead of snow. What happens when rain falls on snow and ice? It accelerates melting.

Finally, but perhaps not completely, in Antarctica we have the the ozone hole. And ozone is a greenhouse gas, and in the ozone hole there is a huge decrease of ozone. If there is a large decrease of a greenhouse gas, then that would allow the Earth to more easily emit radiation to space, and it would contribute to cooling.

I want to try two more figures. These figures are, in my best tradition, home-grown schematics to get across some of these ideas.




Figure 3: A historical situation where mixing in the upper layer of the ocean, caused by the density differences between fresh and salt water, brings heat from the warmer sub-surface water and the atmosphere to melt sea ice.




Figure 4: A present or future scenario where mixing in the upper layer of the ocean is suppressed because of the presence of more fresh water at the surface. This reduces heat transport from the warmer sub-surface water and the atmosphere.


In the top of the figure we have what might be called a historic situation. There is warm water under the part of the ocean that is well mixed by the stress of the atmospheric storms. There is some snow. There is a pattern of thawing and freezing of sea ice that yields saltier water on top of fresher water. This causes mixing, and with the warmer and warming ocean below, this brings warm water up, and can melt sea ice more quickly. This can also mix in warming air from the atmosphere.

In the bottom figure there is more snow, maybe rain, because the atmosphere is warming and holds more water and precipitates more strongly. The snow insulates the ice from the atmosphere. That snow changes the balance of fresh and salty water at the surface. It ends up with fresher water on the surface. The mixing is decreased; the warmer and warming ocean below is isolated from the surface from the ice and there is decreased melting.

Given all of this it is not only plausible, but perhaps even expected that there will be times and places with more sea ice. Fresh water is worth a couple of degrees of temperature. I am not an expert on this subject, which is why it has taken me a while to put it together. I got started thinking about this because of a conversation with Cecilia Bitz about the work of her student, Clark Kirkman IV. If you look at this paper you see a more detailed study of the mechanisms described above, but you also see that the predictions of climate models are for a “delay” in Antarctica compared with the Arctic. Also, it is seen that some of the models predict regional cooling in the Antarctic. Their work is available here: Kirkman IV and Bitz, 2010. I provide a larger set of references below.

Finally, there are the crabs and maybe the sharks. In the first blog in the series, about the Arctic, I talked about the significance of accumulating heat in the environment. This accumulation of heat over many years is convincing and compelling evidence of systematic warming. Such evidence is expressed in the onset of spring coming earlier, trees species and animals moving to new regions, large pieces of ice on mountains melting.




Figure 5: The Antarctic Peninsula (map from The Traveling Naturalist)


In that part of Antarctica that reaches out towards the tip of South America, the Antarctic Peninsula, the water has been warming. This has led to migration of king crabs, who now find water warm enough to survive. This, of course, leads to massive shifts of the ecosystem. Looking at warming and possible changes to the surface ocean currents, it is within the realm of possibility that species, such as sharks, will migrate more southward.

Sea ice formation and melting is strongly dependent on how low latitude heat is delivered to poles by motions in the oceans and atmosphere. Local conditions of saltiness impact not only the freezing and thawing, but the mixing of heat in the upper layer of the ocean. The energy exchange between the surface of the ice and the rest of the environment is impacted by rain, snow, clouds, sun, greenhouse gases, soot, algae – the list goes on. Large changes in sea ice formation and extent depend on relatively small, 1 watt per square meter, changes in energy. That is a change of 1 out of 100s. There are many paths that can lead to changes of 1, either positive (warming and melting) or negative ( cooling and freezing). But the fact is that the surface of the Earth and the atmosphere is warming. The ocean is accumulating heat. If there are patches of cooling related to local processes, this cooling is vulnerable to the building heat in the environment. It does not represent either a refutation of the basic tenets of predictions of a warming planet or a measure of global self healing.

r

Some primary references:

Kirkman IV and Bitz, 2010 / The Effect of the Sea Ice Freshwater Flux on Southern Ocean Temperatures in CCSM3: Deep Ocean Warming and Delayed Surface Warming

Liu and Curry, 2010 / Accelerated warming of the Southern Ocean and its impacts on the hydrological cycle and sea ice

Turner et al. 2009 / Non-annular atmospheric circulation change induced by stratospheric ozone depletion and its role in the recent increase of Antarctic sea ice extent

Zhang, 2006 / Increasing Antarctic Sea Ice under Warming Atmospheric and Oceanic Conditions

Some popular references:

Resolving the Paradox of the Antarctic Sea Ice
Global Warming Protects Antarctic Sea Ice — But Not For Long
Increasing Antarctic Sea Ice Extent Linked to Ozone Hole
King Crabs Invade Antarctic Waters
Crab, Shark Invasion May Threaten Antarctic Marine Life


(If you want to see cool movies that show how rotation organizes flow go to MIT and look at these movies.)


Useful links
Recent sea ice trends
Sea ice data
Rood’s Blogs on Ice
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151. Neapolitan Saat: 10:01 PM GMT Tarih: 30 Mayıs 2011    
Quoting RustyShackleford:


I still need a link to where you got this quote and took it out of context because it doesn't add up with my quote from the same source.

It's not my job to do your homework, is it? ;-) The quote I used is the same as yours. When quoting a published work, it's allowable to omit certain words so long as a) doing so doesn't alter the original meaning and b) an ellipsis (...) is used to signal the omission.

I'll say it again: there will come a time when all the Anthony Watts and Joe Bastardis and James Inhofes in the world won't be able to lie any nore about warming. When that happens, people will realize how badly the denial industry's concerted effort has hurt this nation--and when that does, son't be surprised to see some talk of treason.
Member Since: Kasım 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 11143
152. Neapolitan Saat: 10:04 PM GMT Tarih: 30 Mayıs 2011    
Quoting atmoaggie:
Has anyone seen any data to back this up, yet? Seems that enough time has passed for any data in support to have been presented, if it exists.
The only assumption to be made at this point is that the notion was completely fabricated.
Seriously. Where did this come from? And it seems you must want to accuse the NCDC (the source of the March to Aug study) of cherry-picking...

That's silly, of course; I don't wish to accuse the NCDC of cherry-picking at all; I merely point out--quite correctly--that one can't use data from only half the year to make any kind of case for the whole year. That's like only using nighttime temperatures to prove cooling...
Member Since: Kasım 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 11143
153. atmoaggie Saat: 10:23 PM GMT Tarih: 30 Mayıs 2011    
Quoting Neapolitan:

That's silly, of course; I don't wish to accuse the NCDC of cherry-picking at all; I merely point out--quite correctly--that one can't use data from only half the year to make any kind of case for the whole year. That's like only using nighttime temperatures to prove cooling...
Of course, you would be correct if you pointed that out and left it at that...but you didn't. Should you not be able to find it, you said [a graph] "only shows tornadoes for 6 months out of the year (March through August), when there appears to be an increasing number of higher-end tornadoes occurring outside that limited span."

The bold part is that which I, and others, would like to see some data for. Would be interesting and worth further discussion, if true. Should we have data that refutes it, that would also be interesting. You didn't say it with no inkling as it's verity, right?
Useless at this point to pretend you didn't say it nor that we haven't yet seen any data you can present to support it.
Member Since: Ağustos 16, 2007 Posts: 6 Comments: 12461
154. sirmaelstrom Saat: 10:43 PM GMT Tarih: 30 Mayıs 2011    
[removed: redundant]

Atmoaggie said virtually the same thing that I did; I didn't see it when I initially posted.
Member Since: Şubat 19, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 568
156. atmoaggie Saat: 11:26 PM GMT Tarih: 30 Mayıs 2011    
Reading my April BAMS, and this was inside and quite appropriate to share here and now. The first paragraph:
"The topic of anthropogenic global warming has become so polarized it is now hard to talk about it without what amounts to name-calling entering into the discussion. In blogs, e-mails, and published opinion pieces, terms like “deniers” and “contrarians” are leveled in one direction while “warmist” and “alarmist” are leveled in the other. Both the scientific community and broader society have much to gain from respectful dialog among those of opposing views on climate change, but a reasonable discussion on the science is unlikely if we cannot find non-offensive terminology for those who have taken positions different than our own."
Keith Seitter, Executive Director, AMS
(Much more follows.)

http://blog.ametsoc.org/columnists/neutralizing-s ome-of-the-language-in-global-warming-discussions/
Member Since: Ağustos 16, 2007 Posts: 6 Comments: 12461
157. Snowlover123 Saat: 11:33 PM GMT Tarih: 30 Mayıs 2011    
Quoting DARPAsockpuppet:



Snowlover123, I notice that you are using an image from stevengoddard.wordpress.com.  There doesn't seem to be a real Steven Goddard meteorolgist or climatologist. Who is he? Where did he graduate? What papers did he write? Where does he work?


What does Stephen Goddard being a climatologist or not have to do with animating PIPS images that show that 2011 has substantially more thicker ice than 2008?
Member Since: Nisan 1, 2010 Posts: 9 Comments: 2513
162. Ossqss Saat: 01:01 AM GMT Tarih: 31 Mayıs 2011    
Quoting DARPAsockpuppet:
The Navy PIPS model is not a tool for measuring long-term trends in ice volume. Of course, Snowlover123 knows this already.

Still haven't told me who Steven Goddard is, snowlover.
My guess is that "Steven Goddard" is not a real person; perhaps a pseudonym for an Exxon-Mobil P.R. flunkie.


Regardless, is what he provides incorrect in some way you could share with us? Just curious, I would certainly want know of the inaccuracy involved. I could care less about the character assassination. It has no relevance to verifiable accuracy.
Member Since: Haziran 12, 2005 Posts: 6 Comments: 8154
163. Neapolitan Saat: 01:10 AM GMT Tarih: 31 Mayıs 2011    
Quoting atmoaggie:
Reading my April BAMS, and this was inside and quite appropriate to share here and now. The first paragraph:
"The topic of anthropogenic global warming has become so polarized it is now hard to talk about it without what amounts to name-calling entering into the discussion. In blogs, e-mails, and published opinion pieces, terms like “deniers” and “contrarians” are leveled in one direction while “warmist” and “alarmist” are leveled in the other. Both the scientific community and broader society have much to gain from respectful dialog among those of opposing views on climate change, but a reasonable discussion on the science is unlikely if we cannot find non-offensive terminology for those who have taken positions different than our own."
Keith Seitter, Executive Director, AMS
(Much more follows.)

http://blog.ametsoc.org/columnists/neutralizing-s ome-of-the-language-in-global-warming-discussions/

Yeah, we talked about this at the time. Seitter's heart may be in the right place, but merely substituting one label for another likely won't make many happy. He suggests dividing people into the "convinced" and the "unconvinced", which isn't a completely horrible idea--though he also needs a much larger third category: the "unconvincable". The convinced are those who find the scientific evidence in support of AGWT overwhelming; the unconvinced are those relative few who are truly skeptical of the science, but can (and likely will) be onboard once a bit more evidence comes in; and the unconvinceable are those who steadfastly refuse to believe mankind is changing the climate, so no amount of evidence, logic, or data will sway them.

I can live with that, I suppose...
Member Since: Kasım 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 11143
164. Neapolitan Saat: 01:12 AM GMT Tarih: 31 Mayıs 2011    
Quoting RustyShackleford:


You made the quote out of context as to what was said. No where did it say what you made it say.

Treason will not be given to the "deniers" "skeptics" whatever else you want to call them.

That is foolish talk and kind of crazy.

Sigh...

Go back and look, Rusty/Halo. Seriously. Treason is intentionally harming your nation's sovereignty; industrial denialists are doing just that.
Member Since: Kasım 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 11143
165. Neapolitan Saat: 01:15 AM GMT Tarih: 31 Mayıs 2011    
Quoting DARPAsockpuppet:
The Navy PIPS model is not a tool for measuring long-term trends in ice volume. Of course, Snowlover123 knows this already.

Still haven't told me who Steven Goddard is, snowlover.
My guess is that "Steven Goddard" is not a real person; perhaps a pseudonym for an Exxon-Mobil P.R. flunkie.

"Steven Goddard" is definitely a phantom; denialists have admitted as much. But the name "Goddard" carries obvious weight in climate circles, so one can't blame Big Oil for latching onto the moniker. (BTW: it's not "character assassination" if there is no character to assassinate. Just saying.)

Having said that, you are correct: the PIPS model is being misused in the current context here.
Member Since: Kasım 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 11143
166. Ossqss Saat: 01:20 AM GMT Tarih: 31 Mayıs 2011    
Member Since: Haziran 12, 2005 Posts: 6 Comments: 8154
169. Neapolitan Saat: 09:12 AM GMT Tarih: 31 Mayıs 2011    
Quoting RustyShackleford:
Anyways nobody will be prosecuted for treason just because they don't agree with socialists. That is unconstitutional and just so far gone I'm beginning to wonder what goes on in some of these people's minds.

How can one sit at a computer and say with a straight face that people who are against Man made global warming should be prosecuted for treason and not even get a chuckle.

I never said those who are against GW should be prosecuted; every American is entitled to his/her opinion, even those who are "skeptical" of AGWT. I'm referring only to those who have institutionalized that denial, who have willfully lied and distorted the science, who have intentionally manipulated the facts, who have spent millions of dollars in a sadly successful effort not to spread a political opinion--which is perfectly legal--but to prevent action that could have prevented the nation, its people, and its sovereignty from harm.

(BTW, I was here for your handle switch a few weeks ago, of course, so I only mentioned Rusty/Halo as I wasn't sure which you go by.)
Member Since: Kasım 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 11143
170. Neapolitan Saat: 09:28 AM GMT Tarih: 31 Mayıs 2011    
Rome burns, yet the fiddling continues:

Bleak Outlook for Climate Change with Record CO2 output in 2010

The world wakes up to bad news on climate change this morning with the International Energy Agency reporting CO2 emissions grew to an historic high of 30.6 gigatonnes, a 5% increase over 2008 levels after a dip in 2009.

This is particularly bad news when you consider the current global policy aspirations for climate change. After disappointment at the Copenhagen talks in 2009 global leaders at the UN led talks in 2010 did at least manage to agree that temperature increases should be limited to no more than 2.C to avoid the worst risks of climate change. Needless to say, negotiators have yet to agree on a global greenhouse gas reductions deal to achieve this but now it seems time is running out fast.

Sir Nichoals Stern author of the most influential econometric study of climate change to date quoted in the Guardian today said:

"These figures indicate that emissions are now close to being back on a 'business as usual' path. According to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's projections, such a path would mean around a 50% chance of a rise in global average temperature of more than 4C by 2100. Such warming would disrupt the lives and livelihoods of hundreds of millions of people across the planet, leading to widespread mass migration and conflict. That is a risk any sane person would seek to drastically reduce."

There are some tough statistics to swallow in the report including:

--If the world is to avoid breaching the 2.C target emissions should not reach 32 gigatonnes before 2020. In other words, we can only afford to grow total global emissions over the next 9 years by the same amount we grew them in just one year between 2009 and 2010.

--There is little wiggle room here with 80% of projected emissions from the power sector already locked in from existing capacity or new capacity already under construction. These plants probably don't start to decommission until mid century if allowed to complete their normal life cycle.

--With much of the spurt in emissions growth coming from the developing world we find plenty of room for economic growth to drive future emissions even harder. On a per capita basis OECD countries emitted an average of 10 tonnes compared with China at 5.8 and India at 1.5.

With continued political failure on this issue and inability of the industrial sector to police itself expect a re energising of the civil society/NGO sector. It should also mean a rapid maturation of demand for carbon and energy management software with businesses scrambling to get a grip of this issue if only to head off the effects of more draconian regulation.

Full ZD Net article...

(As an aside: how anyone can think that pumping 67,461,000,000,000 pounds of CO2 into the atmosphere each year--342,000 pounds per square mile of earth's surface; 2.14 million pounds each second-- won't have an effect on the climate is entirely beyond me.)
Member Since: Kasım 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 11143
171. Snowlover123 Saat: 11:02 AM GMT Tarih: 31 Mayıs 2011    
Quoting DARPAsockpuppet:
The Navy PIPS model is not a tool for measuring long-term trends in ice volume. Of course, Snowlover123 knows this already.

Still haven't told me who Steven Goddard is, snowlover.
My guess is that "Steven Goddard" is not a real person; perhaps a pseudonym for an Exxon-Mobil P.R. flunkie.


Of course... spoken like a true believer. If he doesn't support the CAGW theory, and shows stuff that they don't like, he must be being paid by big Oil!

All I showed as a comparison between Ice Thickness in 2008, and now. Not a prediction for the next three decades. Just a prediction that this ice minmum will be close to 2005's. There have been substantial increases in ice thickness since 2008.

The ice is thicker than 2008, 2009, and 2010.

2010




2009


2008


Compare it to 2011



What is most noticeable is the thickness in N Greenland is much much higher than last year.

You can check the data for yourself here:
Member Since: Nisan 1, 2010 Posts: 9 Comments: 2513
172. cyclonebuster Saat: 12:07 PM GMT Tarih: 31 Mayıs 2011    
GULFSTREAM KINETIC ENERGY reverses this trend!




Member Since: Ocak 2, 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 18746
176. Snowlover123 Saat: 06:53 PM GMT Tarih: 31 Mayıs 2011    
Quoting cyclonebuster:
GULFSTREAM KINETIC ENERGY reverses this trend!






How the heck would Gulfstream Kinetic Energy reverse the increase in Carbon Dioxide?
Member Since: Nisan 1, 2010 Posts: 9 Comments: 2513
177. cyclonebuster Saat: 07:05 PM GMT Tarih: 31 Mayıs 2011    
Quoting Snowlover123:


How the heck would Gulfstream Kinetic Energy reverse the increase in Carbon Dioxide?


By replacing fossil fuels. Ya'll with me yet? See the turbine/generator?



Member Since: Ocak 2, 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 18746
179. cyclonebuster Saat: 07:16 PM GMT Tarih: 31 Mayıs 2011    
Quoting RMuller:


How will my car run?


Ever hear of an electrical car?
Member Since: Ocak 2, 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 18746
181. cyclonebuster Saat: 08:02 PM GMT Tarih: 31 Mayıs 2011    
Quoting RMuller:


Not one that is practical. I haven't seen one that can cope without a gas engine and the gas-powered economy vehicles get better mileage because of the weight of all of the electric car's batteries.


All you have to do is switch out batteries between stops then keep on going faster than it takes to fill up!
Member Since: Ocak 2, 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 18746
182. cyclonebuster Saat: 08:08 PM GMT Tarih: 31 Mayıs 2011    
Member Since: Ocak 2, 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 18746
183. JupiterKen Saat: 08:27 PM GMT Tarih: 31 Mayıs 2011    
How does the power (electricity) get from your barge to the shore? Where can I learn more of the workings of this miraculous concept?
Member Since: Mayıs 3, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 295
186. cyclonebuster Saat: 09:01 PM GMT Tarih: 31 Mayıs 2011    
Member Since: Ocak 2, 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 18746
188. cyclonebuster Saat: 09:06 PM GMT Tarih: 31 Mayıs 2011    
Member Since: Ocak 2, 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 18746
190. cyclonebuster Saat: 09:18 PM GMT Tarih: 31 Mayıs 2011    
Member Since: Ocak 2, 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 18746
191. cyclonebuster Saat: 09:21 PM GMT Tarih: 31 Mayıs 2011    
Member Since: Ocak 2, 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 18746
193. cyclonebuster Saat: 09:57 PM GMT Tarih: 31 Mayıs 2011    
Quoting RMuller:


Looks like the only people there were the racing crew. That electric dragster didn't even have reverse. I guess when using batteries, a reverse gear might add too much weight.


Keep guessing. You may hit it lucky one day.
Member Since: Ocak 2, 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 18746
197. Neapolitan Saat: 02:56 AM GMT Tarih: 01 Haziran 2011    
Quoting RMuller:


Willfully lied and distorted the science? Sounds like a textbook case to prosecute Michael Mann. We will see very soon as UVA has to release his email. I guess you'll be hiding for awhile after that release.

Just like six independent investigations found wrongdoing in the pretend "climategate" scandal? Just like BEST showed how wrong the temperature record is? Just like the surfacestations.org analyses showed a warm bias?

Ha.

Mann will be completely exonerated, of course. The problem is, as soon as he is, the industrial denialists will immediately start with the next round of harassment of a good man and a great scientist. Can't blame them; they see the writing on the wall, and it's likely just a matter of five years (IMO) before they're forced to stop with the nonsense. But in the meantime, science has to be constantly dragged through the muck and the mire by people afraid of losing part of their obscene, country-killing profits.
Member Since: Kasım 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 11143
200. Neapolitan Saat: 10:11 AM GMT Tarih: 01 Haziran 2011    
Quoting RMuller:


BEST hasn't released their findings. Another falsehood as is your nature. Similar to your claiming I threatened to shoot you in your enlarged cranium. Stop the lies. Why did he allow UVA to spend close to a million dollars to prevent the release of Mann's email? Eerily similar to the money spent hiding the Obama birth certificate. What does Mann have to hide? I've read some of his email and he can't understand why no more warming is occurring. I've also seen how he factored out the Medieval warming period in his great hockey schtick fakery.

If scientists don't agree, then it ain't science. Sorry to spoil your party. As for five years from now when blizzards continue to seize the world, we'll see who's laughing last. But of course your ilk will say "It's not weather that matters, but only climate."

More ad hominems? Tsk-tsk...

To help you, please check out this page on the BEST site. It's titled "Initial Findings", and it discusses--as you might imagine, given the name--the initial findings of the project.

Apology accepted. Again.
Member Since: Kasım 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 11143

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About RickyRood
I'm a professor at U Michigan and lead a course on climate change problem solving. These articles include ideas from the course. And no tuition!

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